Sunday, August 07, 2005

Who are the Tagarugs? The Tagarug Mystery...

This entry is the fifth in a series of articles in the first annual Seven-Day Salita Blogathon. For more information, please see this entry.

During the Christmas season of 2003, I ran into an old newsgroup posting by a Dr. Rodrigo "Rudy" Dar. In 1996, he mentioned doing research with linguist Dr. Ted Llamzon in the Limutan River area of Rizal province. The name of the language they were researching was called Tagarug. The speakers refered to themselves as "Sinauna" (original). Thirsty for more information, I finally got into contact with Dr. Dar after New Year's 2004.

Dr. Dar told me about the story how he and Dr. Llamzon went about looking for this language. They took some notes and made a Swadesh list (list of words). Unfortunately, Dr. Dar immediately left the Philippines when martial law was instituted by Marcos in the 1970's, so all his notes are gone.

There seem to be some discrepancies which add to all these mysteries.

First, Ethnologue lists a language called Remontado Agta. It's classified in the same subgroup as Kapampangan and the Sambal languages. Also, its alternate names are Hatang-Kayey and Sinauna. Dar told me that Llamzon would shorten the name to Sinauna rather than Tagarug, and that is the name that stuck with SIl and the Linguistic Society of the Philippines.

However, Dar said that the Tagarugs were certainly not Agtas or Negritos.

Second, Dr. Lawrence Reid mentioned in a mailing list that there are people called Sinauna Tagalog (Original Tagalog) in Tanay, Rizal province. This variety shared the pronoun tamu (we; tayo in Tagalog) with Kapampangan.

Third, I have a paper written in 1973 by Dr. Llamzon called The Importance of Dialects in historical Linguistics: Conant's Pepet Law as a Case in Point. He mentions a dialect called "Puray Tagalog" which has the "schwa vowel" found in other Philippine languages. It is spoken in the town of Montalban, Rizal.

Fourth, Dar showed me excerpts of a master's thesis by Pilar Santos. She identifies the Sinauna Tagalog-speaking area to be in: Barangay Daraitan in Tanay, Rizal as well as barangay Kaybilukay, Makidata, Paymihuan, and Pinutian, which are only available by foot. She mentions that Llamzon researched these areas. (so I guess that rules out the third reason above). She says that Tagalog is not intelligible with Sinauna Tagalog.

So are we dealing with 3 different languages or one different one? Unfortunately, I have no native speaker texts of this language, so it is hard to tell.

I do have some words. Mark Rosenfelder's Zompist.Com has Sinauna Tagalog. The numbers are: isâ, dar-á, tatlú, á-pat, limá, á-num, pitú, walú, siyám, sangpú.

I also have my own copy (bought it in a place in India, of all places) of Fe Aldave Yap's A Comparative Study of Philippine Lexicons (I reviewed it here), and there are Sinauna Tagalog words. Yap says it's spoken in Tanay, Rizal.

Many of the Sinauna Tagalog words resemble Tagalog, which is probably due to contact with Tagalogs. But there are words that are different.

They are:
SinaunaTagalogTagalogEnglish
pamahawalmusalbreakfast
ba'bakahassnake
kumawatumakyatto climb
alahipanalipinslave
dunutamoysmell
anayaanowhat
aydawarawday
atapatiproof
migbunumag-awayto fight
bayibabaewoman
ba'yubagonew
ubonbatachild
ngusubibigmouth
mabayatmabigatheavy
buakbuhokhair
burakbulaklakflower
minadunutbulokrotten
sabudbundokmountain
hayindahonleaf
aramaydalirifinger
rangbunmaramimany
landapdinighear
a'banggutomhunger
a'dongilongnose
sarapawlumpiadto fly
marukasmasamabad
ngatte ngayontoday
bitiispaafoot
ititpukivagina
pig'ipuwetbutt
kananasaanwhere
si'nasinowho


That's the gist of it ... there's more. But it still would be nice to have actual sentences because the words alone do not tell the whole story.

Also, to make matters more mysterious - Dar mentions that he saw on a map called "The Filipino People" - released by the National Museum in the 1970's - that there are people who call themselves Tageilog in Quezon province.

Google reveals this page. It's an altername for DUMAGAT: Kabulowen language. It gives the Ethnologue code of Alta, Southern. However, the Tageelog/Tageilog names aren't mentioned.

It makes me wonder who the original Tagalogs really were. Could it be that Southern Luzon was populated by these Tageilogs and Tagarugs, and then the Central Filipinos came in from the Visayas and adopted the name of these people and conquered their land and intermarried with the locals? Who knows. I could only speculate. If only there were evidence.

37 comments:

Karen said...

A lot of words on the table do seem like Kapampangan! This is very interesting especially now that there's an advent of Kapampangan arts and culture. It would be fantastic to discover our closest 'relatives' on the linguistic tree.

Christopher Sundita said...

Glad you enjoyed it, Karen.

I plan on posting some stuff about other languages that Kapampangan is related too. Particularly the languages of Zambales and Bolinao, Pangasinan.

--Chris

Karen said...

Sorry to backtrack Chris, I lost all my bookmarks recently and didn't get to your blog till yesterday.

Have you looked at the claim that Kapampangan is more closely related to Javanese or Sumatran than to most Philippine languages? I sure see many similar words with similar meanings but I am not comfortable making that claim just like that. I've looked at the Austronesian language tree but it seems to be organised according to geographic areas. I have not seen a comparison of Philippine and Indo-Malayan languages yet.

Christopher Sundita said...

I have not heard the claim that Kapampangan is closer to Javanese and the languages of Sumatra, however, I am familiar with a little bit of Javanese.

With that in mind, that claim is simply untrue. Javanese & Kapampangan have very different grammars. Kapampangan's grammar is decidely Filipino.

The charts you see seem to be organized by geographic areas, because some of the languages in a particular area grew from the same ancestral language. Central Philippine languages like Tagalog, Bikol, and Cebuano arose from an ancestral language that was spoken in the Central Philippines.

Also, in Europe, you will find that Romance languages, except for Romanian, are spoken in western Europe.

You will find some languages that do not fit the genetic languages of the languages spoken in a particular area. For example, Abaknon spoken on Capul Island near Samar (Visayan Islands) is more closely related to the Samal languages of southwestern Philippines and eastern Borneo.

Jojo Pasion Malig said...

greetings.

my initial thesis would be that "tagarug" is a dialect of the tagalog language - akin to batangan tagalog or bulacan tagalog.

there is still a huge difference in the vocabularies, however and i also recognize several kapampangan words in the "tagarug" list you have given.

regards.

Jason Paul Laxamana said...

let me insert Kapampangan counterparts (3rd word per item)

pamahaw, almusal, almusal
ba'bak, ahas, ubingan
kumawat, umakyat, ukyat
alahipan, alipin, alipan
dunut, amoy, bau
anaya, ano, nanu
aydaw, araw, aldo
atap, atip, atap
migbunu, mag-away, mipate
bayi, babae, babai
ba'yu, bago, bayu
ubon, bata, anak (ebun also)
ngusu, bibig, asbuk
mabayat, mabigat, mabayat
buak, buhok, buak
burak, bulaklak, bulaklak
minadunut, bulok, dunut
sabud, bundok, bunduk
hayin, dahon, bulung
aramay, daliri, taliri
rangbun, marami, dakal
landap, dinig, damdam
a'bang, gutom, danup
a'dong, ilong, arung
sarapaw, lumpiad, sulapo
marukas, masama, marok
ngatte, ngayon, ngeni
bitiis, paa, bitis
itit, puki, puki
pig'i, puwet, buldit
kanana, saan, nu
si'na, sino, ninu

jojit said...

The research area of Dar and Llamzon is home to three indigenous people groups- the Remontados (half-breeds) who speak Tagalog, and two Dumagat groups speaking their respective languages. The Dumagats call these languages Dumagat Kaliwa and Dumagat Kanan. Your Sinauna Tagarug is actually Dumagat Kaliwa. Linguists do not classify Kaliwa as Dumagat. But I have to respect local knowledge and indigenous label. I strongly suspect that Dumagat Kaliwa is a dying language. I often visit the area. Help me save the language and ethnicity of Kaliwa Dumagats. -Jojit

jojit latayan said...

By the way, it is not surprising to hear that there were people or language in the Remontado-Dumagat area called Sinaunang Tagalog, Taga-ilog, Tagaelog or Tagarug. The area is Kaliwa Watershed. It has many rivers and streams. River is "ilog" in Tagalog/Filipino. Stream is oftentimes called "ilog" also by native speakers of the national language. ("Sapa" is the correct term though.) Tagalog, Taga-ilog, Tagaelog or Tagarug simply means "people by the river".

Generally, Remontados are indigenous people who consider "Dumagat" as a deregatory term. So, they refuse to be called as such. Most of them descended from Dumagat-settler union. Remontados speak a Tagalog dialect not a distinct language.

Below are some Dumagat Kaliwa statements translated to Dumagat Kanan and English.

Kaliwa- Kanna ka pupure?
Kanan- Dino ka paago?
English- Where are you going?

Kaliwa- Baana ingaran mo?
Kanan- Ano ingalan mo?
English- What is your name?

Kaliwa- Rangbon e aram ko pambuhayed katutubo.
Kanan- Makmok nakaengtingasan ko buhay ne katutubo.
English- I know much of the ways of the native.

Kaliwa- Ladap ka eda kayime?
Kanan- Naketingaes ka man nunsurot me?
English- Do you understand our language?

Christopher Sundita said...

Hi Jojit! Wow, thanks for the information. I appreciate it. I am wondering if you could do translations for me.

--Chris

jojit latayan said...

Okay. I'll go back to the area this December 26.

Jojit said...

Chris and everyone, here are more translations. I believe this is a way to save the dying language.

Kaliwa- Humatta kamong lahat at mangan tamo.
Kanan- Dumio kamo apesan tana namangan kitam.
English- Come here and let us eat.

Kaliwa- Eh! Lauwa e haya.
Kanan- Eh! Anok ni wina.
English- Eh! I don't like that.

Kaliwa- Mapiyang abe-abe kadse kamong lahat kadta!
Kanan- Piyon na abe-abe dikamo apesan dio!
English- Good morning to all who are here!

Kaliwa- Ho, anong igawgawan mo kadta?
Kanan- Ho, ano ipeya dimo dio?
English- Hey, what are you doing here?

Kaliwa- Kasanad ko e haya.
Kanan- Unwelo ko naey.
English- He/She is my sibling.

Kaliwa- Iye
Kanan- Ow
English- Yes

Kaliwa- Wala
Kanan- Eyen
English- No

Barbie said...

Sir Jojit Latayan, im one of your former students, we like your article at the inquirer about "the katutubo". We would like to encourage thoses who are interested in joining efforts with Sir Latayan in preserving the culture of these indigenous people. We have actually been at the area where our professor has been researching for quite some time. Sir "pogi" has a persevering approach to really know who this indigenous people are. I remember "nung nasa manggahan kami habang nakikipagusap sya sa dumagat kanan nagjojot down notes talaga sya with the use of gas lamp" You really did a great job.We really wanted to know who sir jojit was since he was really not outgoing individual as our professor in school.But when we got to interact with the dumagat kaliwa at kanan, the people would only utter the same description about him. They would all say, "bayani na yan dito lagi kaming tinutulungan at binibisita". Sir has good intention for his visit and not to replace "ka Roger",leader of the rebelious group of activists as what our other friend claimed sir Jojit of. Wehehehee.....

Sir your article in Inquirer so malalim I need to read it with the use of dictionary "thesaurus" hehehe.Pls the next time you will make another article , make it readable for all of the public especially those our age. The younger group of individual like us are the ones more interested in dis topics. Your articles really has made a difference,pls continue writing articles about this indigenous people, because these simple acts of yours has helped many. Pls dont stop your SINCERE EFFORTS, w/o you these people dont have a chance

Sana mabasa to ng ibang tao para maisip din nilang pumunta, you wont regret the wonderful scenery and experience. Principles and hospitality are rich at the area, interacting with the people would not be difficult to establish. The opportunity is there and Sir Jojit Is willing to accompany you there and GRAB IT......

--BARBIE---"ganda"
Nursing Student Of Lyceum St Cabrini Batangas

Anonymous said...

Sir Jojit Latayan, im one of your former students, we like your article at the inquirer about "the katutubo". We would like to encourage thoses who are interested in joining efforts with Sir Latayan in preserving the culture of these indigenous people. We have actually been at the area where our professor has been researching for quite some time. Sir "pogi" has a persevering approach to really know who this indigenous people are. I remember "nung nasa manggahan kami habang nakikipagusap sya sa dumagat kanan nagjojot down notes talaga sya with the use of gas lamp" You really did a great job.We really wanted to know who sir jojit was since he was really not outgoing individual as our professor in school.But when we got to interact with the dumagat kaliwa at kanan, the people would only utter the same description about him. They would all say, "bayani na yan dito lagi kaming tinutulungan at binibisita". Sir has good intention for his visit and not to replace "ka Roger",leader of the rebelious group of activists as what our other friend claimed sir Jojit of. Wehehehee.....

Sir your article in Inquirer so malalim I need to read it with the use of dictionary "thesaurus" hehehe.Pls the next time you will make another article , make it readable for all of the public especially those our age. The younger group of individual like us are the ones more interested in dis topics. Your articles really has made a difference,pls continue writing articles about this indigenous people, because these simple acts of yours has helped many. Pls dont stop your SINCERE EFFORTS, w/o you these people dont have a chance

Sana mabasa to ng ibang tao para maisip din nilang pumunta, you wont regret the wonderful scenery and experience. Principles and hospitality are rich at the area, interacting with the people would not be difficult to establish. The opportunity is there and Sir Jojit Is willing to accompany you there and GRAB IT......

--BARBIE---"ganda"
Nursing Student Of Lyceum St Cabrini Batangas

Anonymous said...

Sir Jojit, how can I get in touch with you. I read your article at the inquirer, I was deeply touched.

Esmie

Anonymous said...

1st I was suprised.. well, just because i don't know who are these people Sir Jit talking about. I'm a Pilipino yet I never knew... really that they exist! It's just at this moment that i realize that.. "hey! we're not the only one living in this country!.." & there is such tribe as Dumagat "pala...."...
It was really suprising (my own opinion)... malay ko ba db?!
So, Sir Jojit thank you very much for letting us know.. I'll support you all the way. :)

cristine s.

Anonymous said...

sir how can i get in touch with you ba???? ahm sir jit xa pala si esmie ahm ung aalis alis taz paparamdam noh kung kelan my mrs. imee latayan ka na pwede ba sabihin mo nga its been along tym...ah my nag eexist palang ganun, oo nmn ilang taon ka ng nabubuhay di mo pa alam.. ah oo..asa bundok xa dapat sumama ka girl...

Wilma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

senpai latayan this is jayson diaz one of your apprentice.. If you read this Message would you mind sending me your e-mail add. I need to ask you something although this is not urgent hope i can contact you soon. thanks anyway

willy agrimano said...

remontado agtas or people are mixture of ancient tagalog and dumaghet. the term tagarug is actually new term because the tendency of the tribe people there is to create new terminologies out of new words from outside their community.i talked to dumagat people and i learnrd that their language exist in many forms. the general are in two categories- the "mangnih or mangnah" and the "baybay"(sa baybay dagat na salita).other form is the newer one which is more tagalog/kapangpangan forms.(maybe due to the influence of the migrating people from pampangga and tagalog areas) .The real dumaghet has their own terminology for tagalog and according to them they called the tagalogs as " abyang"!i believe the dumagats are the early groups of pilipino in the areas of the sierra madre regions in the provinces of Rizal,Bulakan and Quezon.This are the samples of dumagat words or "e sorot pa dumaghet" 1. papalanu magpakaluto di ni bigyes de buloh?(papaano magluto/magsaing ng bigas sa buho? 2.) mapion kapen e agta ni dumaghet dehil te pakundeangan ide eyen tolad ni agta de kasidungan a lewet lewet de pagyedi ni kalekoan.( mabuti pa ang taong dumaghat dahil may pakundangan hindi tulad ng mga tao sa kapatagan na pauli ulit sa paggawa ng kalikoan.3. Mahalage e pakekepagkapuwe agta kesa pakekekoloy. (mahalaga ang pakikipagkapuwa tao kaysa pakikisama) 4.) inomeral e kamatoden ta katoweden ni makedepaT de ketam a bensa ngane masopel e makmuk a ore ni kamalotan ta kalekoan ni inuman a agta. (umiral ang katotohanan at katuwiran ng Panginoon upang masupil a maraming uri ng kasamaan at kalikuan ng sinumang tao.)5.) on tuneh a pelipeno de ketam a bensa ey on agta ni dumaghet de kabukodien ni Bukod ni ena(sierra madre). (Ang tunay na Pilipino sa ating bansa ay ang taong dumagat sa kabundukan ng sierra madre)

Christopher Sundita said...

Wow, Willy, that is very fascinating. Thank you for the insight. Do you have an e-mail address?

Thanks,

--Chris

willy agrimano said...

may kaibigan kasi akong dumagat.nag aaral ako ng salita nila dahil gusto kong matuto ng mga katutubong awit nila!ang e-mail ko ay mataripis@yahoo.com. gebeyen eketam ni makedepat de pag edal ni kanide a pag sorot!(gabayan tayo ng panginoon sa pag aral ng kanilang salita!)

mataripis said...

Dumaghet is not kapampangan.It sounds like kapampangan but with different meaning.I believe dumaghet or Tagarug is an ancient Language preserved in the sierra madre region.It is actually a language of a hermit or someone who has wisdom and intuitions. If we use this language like modern tagalog, a higher dicipline will be required to avoid bad karma, since dumaghet is associated with holiness.the use of dumaghet will destroy the fruits of evil works of humans!literallly will reduce pilipino population!the errors done will be replaced by something good and worthy.in every language there were general rules that affect a certain civilization and using dumaghet will mean reformation with simplicity and practicality in every aspects.

mataripis said...

masampata abeabe deketamapesan!(magandang buong araw sa ating lahat)mayroon na naman akong ibabahagi sa inyo na "sorot ni dumaghet" sa kaurian ng "Baybay"(matandedi= sinauna)1.)luminapo on orat de kasidungan dehil de malagdu a tapok=umapaw ang tubig sa kapatagan dahil sa malakas na ulan.2.)ge iyop e magignaw a palas de ketam a bensa be bulan ni diesyembire.= umiihip ang malamig na hangin sa ating bansa pag buwan ng disyembre.3.)mapion a mamangan on idaramot- masarap na kanin ang lamang ugat.4.)de panolosol ni makmuk a agta, naloydi on sorot pa dumaghet de kapoloan a oyo(oio)=sa paniwala ng maraming tao, matagal na ang salitang dumagat sa kapuluang ito.5.)on meynila ey de dilad ni bulakan =ang maynila ay sa ibaba(timog?) ng bulakan.6.) on deyeye ey "ilaya" de pa abyang= ang "deyeye" ay ilaya sa pa tagalog.7.) umalayo de kagigkid ni orat be padatuong on bulang= lumayo sa tabi ng ilog(tubig) pag padating ang baha.8. legtasin tebe e ketam a ne simbe de makedepata yeshwah de mamalota pangyeyedi de pesana panaohn= iligtas nawa tayong nasamba sa panginoong jesus sa masasamang pangyayari sa lahat ng panahon.9.)on pagpaneg de kamatoden ta katoweden ni makedepat ey seysay ni pag eral neketamapesan de dayegdeg a oyo= ang pagpanig sa katotohanan(katarungan) at katuwiran ng panginoon ay saysay ng pag iral nating lahat sa daigdig na ito.10.) subiin mo on ekan= ihawin mo ang isda. 11.) namatalikngoy ok ni berita= nakinig ako ng balita. 12.) nanood ok de palabes non abe= nanood ako ng palabas kagabi.

mataripis said...

Here are the translations of christian prayers in dumaget terms.This dumaget form is baybay or regional/standard form for all agta of dumaget in central luzon.1.) Our Father- Ama a Makedepat de kalongotan,simbein tebe' on ngalan mo,dinomatung tebe e kahadian mo,mayedi tebe e kalooben mo, kong papalanu de langot, maginon pala deo de putwak.bohyin mo de kame nunoh e papangan de adow adow.patawedin mo mon hutang ni kame tolad ni kame a ye patawed de te hutang de kame.wet mo kame ipaalani de tokso,te eyen(kondi) alayuin mo kame de kamalotan. de pagkat on kahadian ta kapangyedian ta kalowelhatean ey dikaw magpakapedeman. eye a makedepat/// translation by mataripis.

mataripis said...

The prayer "I believe" in dumaget. ( Ge sampalataye ok de makedepat a Ama a makapangyedian de pesan a lenomekha de langot ta potwak.maginon pala ge sampalataye ok de e isin a makedepat a yeshwah a mehushkay, on makedepat neketamapesan.nayedi ni benala dewe,ipinanganak de madikit a mareya,pinagpakahedep ni ponsiyu pilatu,ipinuoy de kheoh, nalibon,nilibong,rumagos de kadisaladen,de ika tiliwon a adow naedupalewet,sumakat de kaditasan ni langot ta naloklok de kanan ni Ama a makapangyedian de pesan.Eye on napane beta-yen ni ipaghukum ni edup ta nalibon.Ge sampalataye ok de benal a dewe mageng de simbean ni mapiona berita,de pesan a pinabenal ,de kapataweden ni kasalanan,de pagka edup a lewet ni nalibon a agta ta pag edup a magpakapedeman.Eye a makedepat///2.)Glory be in dumaget- ( Lowelhate de makedepat a Ama, de makedepat a anak ta de makedepata benal a dewe.kong papalanu de pagipo,maginon pala nunoh ta pagdatuong a panaohn a magpakapedeman.eye a makedepat

Philwebservices said...

thank you for posting..keep it up!!

mataripis said...

the chants from India called "Gayatri Mantra" and "Om Mane Padme Hum" are becoming famous in many countries because of their calming effects to humans.Now, i use the 2 forms of Dumagat language known as "Baybay"and "Mangnah" in reciting mantra using name of Lord Yeshwah (Aramaic form of Jesus).it has the meaning "Father, Praise you, for Yeshwah has risen, let the holy Spirit reign in us.here is the dumagat translation of this mantra with new title called "On sansenokoban a mantra" (Universal MANTRA) the first one is in baybay form, the second is in Mangnah. 1.) AMA, PORE-IHN KA, NAEDUP EH YESHWAH, E MAKEDEPATA GE PABENAL, BENALA DEWE MAGHADI,DEKETAM EYE MANGYEDI.2.) RAMA, PUDI'NAN, ME BUHAY SI YESHWAH, E PANGINOON MEG PAKABANAL, BANAL NA DIWA MAGHARI, KAD SI' TAMU' SI' YA MANGYADI. The tagalog translation for this= AMA, PURIHIN KA, NABUHAY SI YESHWAH, PANGINOON NA NAGPABANAL, BANAL NA DIWA MAGHARI, SYANG SA ATIN MANGYARI.//////The Om Mani Padme Hum in Dumagat, "Kapionaneyikaw" on the fifth repetition, insert Yeshwah. the tune for these 2 mantras is using the versions of Devapremal in "You tube".

mataripis said...

simple lesson for pa baybay a kaorean ni dumaget(baybay form of dumaget) 1. sa akin- de ako, 2.sa iyo-de ikaw or dikaw 3. sa atin- de ketam 4. sa amin- de kame 5. sa inyo- de kamu 6. sa kanila- de ide or dide 7. sinoman-inuman 8. kahit na/ngunit- misan 9. marahil ay- kate ey 10. paniwala- panoloson 11. ilaya- de yeyea 12. ibaba- dilad 13. paakyat/paahon- pasakat 14. palusong- arumagos 15. mainit- meneti 16. malamig-magignaw 17. daanan- selaan 18. dinaanan- senelaan(siniloan?) 19. daan-sela 20. pula- mas-sinag 21. itim- madilom 22. puti- malapsey/malapsay 23. mataas- maditas 24. mababa-masidung 25. kababaan- kasidungan 26. bayan- benuwan 27. bayanan o kabayanan- binwangan 28. tirahan-pe taanan 29.bubong-aklowp 30. isa- isin 31. dalawa- aduwi 32. tatlo- tilwon 33. alingawngaw- alyiw(echo) 34. nakalipas- nakatakeg(mabagal na bigkas) 35. kaunahan- katageboan 36. kauna unahan- katage tageboan///// sample of sentences 1. duman de maditas a kadepet ey pe taanan ko. (duon sa mataas na dako ay tirahan ko.) 2. on agta ni dumaget ey katageboan de kapuloan a oio(oyo)- ang taong dumagat ay kaunahan sa kapuluang ito 3. de nakatakeg a pana-ohn , e kasidungan ey eye a pe taanan nide. dehil de pagditas ni atab ,makmuk a behagi ni putwok ey inoma ni orat, eye dehilan kong byeakut ide a agta ni dumaget ey ge pasya a magpaduman de maditas a kadepet, duman de kabokodien a inolangan a ina ni kabukodien(sierra madre) nunoh.kaye hanggeng nunoh ide ey gyepanatele duman.(sa nakalipas na panahon,ang kapatagan ang tahanan,dahil sa pag taas ng dagat,maraming bahagi ng lupa ay naabot ng tubig,siyang dahilan kung bakit nagpasya sila na magsiparoon sa mataas na dako, duon sa kabundukan na tinaguriang sierra madre,kaya hanggang ngayon sila ay nagsipanatili duon.

Mataripis said...

4 days ago, i started to study the "Mangna" language of Dumagat.surprisingly, i discovered that your Dumagat kaliwa is exactly they termed as "Mangna" or "Mangnih".The dumagat folk who use to teach me the Dumaget pa baybay is also the one who is teaching me the "Mangna" meaning she can speak both forms of Dumagat language.I observed that most terminologies are Tagalog words,what made them different is the way they are pronounced. like "sana" in modern Tagalog, in Mangna, it is "SA'Na".the glottal stop in between words made this language difficult to comprehend even by native Tagalog Speakers. I made comparison between "Mangna" and "Baybay" both Categorized as Dumagat language.I use the prayer "Our Father" translated in two forms of Dumagat. In Mangna termed as "Hatang Kaye" the word "Dumagat" is use while in "Baybay" the word "Dumaget" is correct word to describe the name of language.The first translation of "Our Father" in "E sorot ni Dumaget" is informal because of the usage of "Tebe" and "Mo'.In these new translations, formal form of "mo" is used which is "yU",and i replaced "Tebe" with "Depat".The first translation is in "E Dumaget pa Baybay" and the second is in " Kad kaye ed Mangna"(sa salita ng mangna). 1.) AMA A MAKEDEPAT= Ama a Makedepat/Sim-bein depat e Ngalan Yu/Dinomatu-ong depat e kahadian Yu/Mayedi depat e kalooben yU/ Kong papalanu de langot/maginon pala de-oh de putwok/Boyin yu de kame nunoh/ e papangan de adow adow/patawedin yu on hutang ni kame/mages ni kame a ye patawed /de te hutang de kame/Hwet Yu kame ipaalane de toksu/Te eyen alayo-in yu kame de kamalotan/Bege on kahadian ta kapangyedian ta kalowelhate-an ey di kamu magpakapedeman. Eye a Makedepat 2.) "RAMA ME"= Rama me Pangenoon ka sa Ubuhan/Sambahan sa'nah ngaran yu/don-natang ah kaharian yu/mayadi sa'nah a ka-ibigan yu/in papaana kad ewang/gyagin kad ta luta/biyan yu si kame ngata/e papangnan kad edaw edaw/ipatawad yu e utang me/sog-god me naagpatawad/kada keutang kadsi kame/haw yu isi' ah kame ipa-apad kad tokso/inwala epalayu yo isi kame kad lahat ng mamarukas.bengane kaharian at kapangyarihan at kaluwalhatian ay kad si kamu. Kad si' iyah na Pangenoon.

Elena Delgado said...

Wow! The comment section here is very very enlightening! 1 thing though, I don't understand how these terms could be considered so different from Tagalog.

tagarug/tagalog/english
ngusu bibig mouth
bayi babae woman
si'na sino who

'Ngusu' is very similar to 'nguso' of tagalog. 'Bayi' is used in Quezon province I believe for 'babae.' & 'si'na' sounds too close to our plural for of 'si' - 'sina.'

As for:

tagalog/kapampangan/english
ano, nanu, what

Nanu sounds very similar to Japanese 'nani,' meaning what also.

Mataripis said...

Dumagat languages in my conclusion are the ancient forms of Tagalog/Bisaya/Bikol/Kapampangan/Ilokano/Pangasinense/and other Phil. Languages(even most of Southeast asian languages). This Language has more than 3 levels and categories and maybe they became some of the known/developed languages in Phil. Archipelago and other southeast asian islands and peninsula. Dumagat is the distant cousin of extinct Kavi.

mataripis said...

An old lady (lola) informed me that in 1949 , the speaker of Tagalog in Balara(now Quezon City)was named/called as "Tageloy".The language is already called Tagalog. This means that when describing the language, it is "Tagalog" but when describing the native speakers, they are called "Tageloy"! The meaning of Tageloy can be traced in Dumagat language in Rizal ang it means " From ancient civilization" (Tage+ loy (long time ago) )if expressed in Tagalog = Taga Nag LAON na panahon!

Jojit said...

The concentration of these Hatang Kayey/Sinauna-speaking people are Sitios Kinabuan and Nayon in Tanay, Rizal. However, only a few elders in the area prefer to be called Dumagats or Kaliwa Dumagats. Most of the speakers want to be called Remontados (meaning with lowlander blood). Native speakers of Hatang Kayey/Sinauna in the sitios of Pagsangahan in Gen. Nakar, Quezon call themselves Dumagats or Kaliwa Dumagats. Last 2008, I distributed Hatang Kayey/Sinauna dictionaries and translations of the Lord's Prayer and the National Anthem in sitios mostly in Rizal area.

Christopher Sundita said...

So 7 years after this entry was made, I am still getting comments. I finally caught up with you guys.

Are there recordings of this language? If not, I ask that some be made in high quality and uploaded. Some people have recordings done on other PHilippine languages of speakers telling stories or legends - like the Turtle & Monkey story. If you have anything like this available it would be highly valuable.

Do you have an e-mail address? Please let me know. I'm interesetd in keeping in touch.

Anonymous said...

meron kaya lang di na ako naglalapit sa kanila. sa katunayan, marami nang agta mula sa kabundukan ng Quezon ay nagsisilipat na sa bahagi ng Tanay,Rizal dahil sa kagipitan.Uulitin ko, may mahigit sa tatlong uri ang paraan ng pangungusap ng Agta, 1.) Baybay 2.) Mangnah 3.) Salowsod or Aya; at iba pa.Pag natuto ka sa isa unang dalawa ay di pa rin makakaunawa sa iba dahil iba ang pagbalanghay ng mga salita.Ang salitang Dumagat ay maaring maging nakapaling sa Tagalog o sa iba pang dyalekto na malapit sa pamayanan nila dahil napuna ko na maaring itugma o ilagay ang ibang salita sa paraan ng pangungusap nila.

Anonymous said...

paalala lang sa mga nagbabalak na magtungo sa kabundukan ng mga Dumagat. Maari kayong magayuma ng mga katutubong ito o maisahan dahil sadyang mabagbiro ang ilan sa kanila.wag magpaturo sa lasing o humuhingi ng inoming nakakalasing.

Ninuno said...

Some of those giving comments and translations tackle Umiray Dumaget Dumagat instead of your "Tagarug" or Sinauna/Hatang Kaye/Kaliwa Dumagat.