Showing posts with label language policy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label language policy. Show all posts

Sunday, October 15, 2006

Language Barrier, a microdocumentary on Cebuano

During these past few years, I've been dreaming of having my own TV show on PBS in the distance future, after having established myself in the field of linguistics. The show I have in mind would be about languages of the world but in a Rick Steves-esque kind of format - just basically bringing awareness of the different kinds of languages. I even have a "The Languages of Bicol" section already planned out in my head - I'd demonstrate how words for a particular object differ whenever I cross a river in Bicolandia. Or I could cover the revival of say, Occitan, in France, the horrid state of the Ryukyuan languages in Japan, the sole living native speakers of various languages, the life of a translator/interpreter, etc. The possibilities are just endless!

Whether or not the show would garner a substantial audience is another matter altogether, but a guy can dream, can't he?

But I digress.

I did, however, find a video that's along the lines of what I want to do. While in the land of viral videos that is YouTube, I discovered a video titled Language Barrier, produced in Cebu City & Lapu-Lapu City by IAFT film student Ian Allen Lim. It is a "microdocumentary" (I think I just invented this word) which gives a sociolinguistic perspective by interviewing three native Cebuanos: writer/poet Michael U. Obenieta, UP student Roxy Jane Kaka, and media law professor Alfredo Buenaventura.

Each of these three have differing attitudes concerning their native language vis-à-vis Tagalog. Mr. Obenieta and Ms. Kaka seem to have diplomatic attitudes toward people speaking Tagalog in Cebu but at the same address the way that Cebuanos and their language have been mistreated. Atty. Buenaventura, on the other hand, passionately argues that Tagalogs should learn Cebuano when they come to Cebu if he has to speak Tagalog while in Manila.

Despite these different opinions, there seems to be a common thread among the three of them. They have their own rich language with its long-standing history and they are damn proud of it. It's also a matter of fairness. Until the late 20th century, there were more native Cebuano speakers than native Tagalog ones. Despite that, it was Tagalog that went on to be national and official language of the country and the only language to be officially taught in schools. Even today the mass media is by and large in Tagalog and English, though Cebuano seems to making ground, albeit slowly.

The point is that it puts a more meaningful background of how Cebuanos feel about the marginalization of their language in the face of Tagalog domination. It's very easy for Tagalogs to discard Cebuanos' feelings and quickly labeling it irrational and divisive regionalism and such.

I do support Atty. Buenaventura's idea of reciprocity to a certain extent, however it's not a Tagalog-speaker's fault they can't learn the language (Cebuano resources are difficult to obtain, and I speak from experience, as a Tagalog speaker). It should be up to the Philippine educational system to implement such a program. More on this can be found in my blog entry titled My Ideal Language Policy.

In any case, you can view the video at the end of this blog entry. You can also access it directly (as well as leaving the author a comment) by clicking here.

Monday, June 12, 2006

Philippine Independence Day

I am probably a day late, but here in the Seattle area we still have about 6 hours left of June 12th. So Happy Philippine independence day!

Jed Pensar of SOLFED (Save Our Languages through FEDeralism) sent the Philippine national anthem translated into Hiligaynon, Cebuano, Kinaray-a, Manobo, and Butuanon. I have included the latter three versions on my webpage at http://www.geocities.com/csundita/filipiniana/anthems.html

So while here in America there's controversy concerning the singing of the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish (which is ironic, since I learned the English lyrics, composed during American rule in the 1930's, of the Philippine national anthem FIRST, and didn't know the original was in Spanish until 10 years ago!) there's some controversy in the Philippines as well.

According to Chapter II, Section 36 of Republic Act 8491, the national anthem must "be sung in the national language." Chapter VII, Section 48 further outlines consequences in not complying with the provisions with this act; this includes.

This has prompted the passing of a resolution back in November of 2002 by the city council in Iligan, Lanao del Norte. It banned the mandatory singing of the anthem in Cebuano. My opinion at the time, as well as a copy of the article are archived here.

My opinion still stands that this RA 8491 needs to amended. It's stupid, really. This is considering the fact that the original anthem was written in Spanish and also the fact that the Philippines is ethnolinguistically diverse. Manuel Quezon III gave a passing mention about this in his blog.

I also found an article titled 3 versions of the unsung national anthem in Bicol. In response, a reader, Francisco San Miguel of Morong, Rizal, warned about violating the law.

In other news, I graduate in four days. So I'm rather pressed for time (amazing how I squeezed this in!). I did get accepted to the University of Washington's linguistics program, however I am going to put that on hold to work for one more year. It's a risky move, since it entails me reapplying (which could potentially mean being rejected), but I think I'll get in again.

I'll have a lot of freetime during the summer. I plan on writing about that Reid festschrift I mentioned earlier as well as Dr. Carl Rubino's new book on learning Tausug (which UPS should be delivering to me this Friday!).

Monday, August 08, 2005

My ideal language policy

This entry is the sixth in a series of articles in the first annual Seven-Day Salita Blogathon. For more information, please see this entry.

For those of you who already know me, you probably have an idea of what my ideal language policy for the Philippines is. But most likely, you only know part of it. In this entry, I outline a draft copy of my ideal language policy for the Philippines.

As outlined by the 1987 Constitution, both Tagalog (under the name Filipino) and English are official languages. Tagalog/Filipino is the national language. And the regional languages are "auxiliary" languages in their respective home regions. And Spanish & Arabic are to be promoted on an optional basis.

Here is what I propose.

Official Language at the National Level

I am not sure what the best answer is here. For an ethnolinguistically diverse country as the Philippines, I am totally against the idea of one sole official and national language. Sure, there are arguments that we should have a unifying language. But why can't more than one language help with this process of unification? To me, being limited to one language is, in a word, unfair. It's disprectful. And I think it has fostered resentment among non-Tagalogs.

Some have proposed that there be no official language at all. The United States is this way - but English is the de-facto official language. It's an idea that' sworth thinking about, but so far I have not been too fond of it. For one, I think it will inevitably lead to the de-facto officialization of one sole language - and that is Tagalog.

I am leaning towards systems in other countries where there are more than two official languages. Switzerland is one, with 4 (German, French, Italian, and Romantsch). But, India is another with 22 official languages.

There are over 160 languages in the Philippines, but clearly all of them cannot be the official languages.

So maybe the 13 major languages? They each have at least 1 million speakers and all of them represent at least 90% of the country. It is more inclusive than just 1 language that natively represents about a quarter of the country.

Regionally & Provincially

I think this one is simple - whatever major language is spoken in the respective regions and provinces. Places like Romblon would have Romblomanon, Asi, and Onhan. Cagayan would be Ilokano, Ibanag, and Gaddang. Batanes would be Ivatan and Itbayat, and so on.

Schools

As it stands, only Tagalog & English are taught in schools and those are the languages in which textbooks are available. In theory, the regional languages are taught from an early age and then Tagalog & English are used as the media of instruction.

This horrible pratice must come to an end.

Research has shown that students learn better in their native languages. Makes sense, doesn't it? I am taking a class on Statistics now. It is rather challenging. I speak Spanish quite well. However, I'd be at a disadvantage if I learned about statistics in Spanish. I'd much prefer English to ensure that I understand everything. Similarly, why force a Bikolano child to learn about math in Tagalog & English - languages that are not his own? It'd be much more better in the long run to learn in his own language.

The medium of instruction should be - wherever possible - the native language. Think about it, learning about physics in Kapampangan. There are the nay-sayers who say that it cannot be done. But you know what? It's possible. If the Indonesians, Thais, and Japanese can do it - then so can we.

One of the arguments against this was that there are no native scientific vocabulary. Well, I have news for you - neither does English. Most of its scientific vocabulary is from Latin and Greek. Tagalog, Kapampangan, and whatever else can do the same.

I illustrated this points months ago in a discussion forum where I took a sentence from my physics textbook to explain the concept of acceleration with a falling object:

"Isang bagay na nahuhulog ay bumibilis nang 9.8 m/s bawa't segundo kung
kakaunting-kaunti lamang ang resistensya ng hangin. "

(A falling object gains speed at a rate of 9.8 m/s per second if there is very little wind resistence.)

Now, that wasn't hard.

So, am I advocating the removal of English in the school curriculum. Of course not! I see a lot of value in English, and its loss would be detrimental to Filipinos.

If anything, English should be treated as what it really is to most Filipinos - a foreign language. English shouldn't be used to teach math and sciences.

But when should English be taught? As early as possible. English should be taught to children - a vital time to be learning foreign languages.

On the subject of foreign languages, two foreign languages should be taught. They fall into two categories.

A Philippine language - Get the three major Philippine languages - Tagalog, Cebuano, and Ilokano. Tagalogs would have the choice of learning Ilokano or Cebuano. Visayans would have to learn either Ilokano or Tagalog. And Ilokanos would have to learn, you guessed it, Cebuano or Tagalog. I don't believe in forcing someone to learn a language. HOWEVER, I believe that we should force the learning of a language that one's countrymen speaks just as we force children to learn math and history. The choice of the language is up to them.

A non-Philippine language - English is the obvious choice. However, it would be a choice among other non-Philippine languages. I also propose Spanish. Perhaps Chinese and Japanese.

Now, there are limits. It's typical that someone will complain that "Oh, we can't translate documents and books in all 160 languages."

I know that.

Let's try one step at a time. Tagalog is already done. We'll ease into Cebuano .. then Ilokano ...

It doesn't have to happen overnight.

One argument I encountered - and it's pretty silly, ludicrous even - it came from a guy named Antonio (comments of this type here). He claimed that my proposals have a selfish reason. By preserving the languages and calling for their use in all areas of societies (the Catalans call it "normalization"), we linguists are out to get a profit by translating and making money off of making books and dictionaries about these languages. Yes, Antonio, I am learning to become a linguist so I can get filthy rich.

Another argument I hear is "but the Philippines has so many other problems! This is the last you should be thinking about!"

That may be the case, and I understand that. And what can I say? The topic is about language policy and not about poverty and overpopulation. My "thing" is languages. And thus, languages I will discuss. If I want to discuss poverty and the other problems in the Philippines, then I'll have another blog for that where I'd advocate the use of contraceptives and the like. I just don't believe in a pathetic and irrelevant cop-out. Yes, language policy is the furthest on the mind of Filipinos - but perhaps there will be a time in the future.

So yes, these are my proposals. Albeit in a very rough form. It's bound to change as time goes on and as I come into contact with new information. I encourage you to comment constructively.

Sunday, May 01, 2005

Changes to Ethnologue

SIL has recently made some changes to its Ethnologue. It's now in its 15th edition.

I was curious to see if there were any changes to its page on the languages of the Philippines. The first I noticed is that where were no longer 169 living languages as stated in the 14th edition, but instead there were now 171. And instead of three extinct languages, there were now *gasp* four.

Unfortunately, there appears to be no way of automatically seeing what the changes are, so I had to manually make a comparison between the two versions.

So, here are my findings. Please direct any corrections to me.

Reclassifications

Seven of the existing languages were renamed.

Bontoc, South is now Finallig
Sama, Abaknon is now Inabaknon
Adasen is now Itneg, Adasen
Kalanguya, Keley-i is now Kallahan, Keley-i
Magindanaon is now Maguindanao
Sama, Balangigi is now Balangigi

Extinctions

One language was removed from the living languages portion and moved down to the extinct language. This language is Agta, Villa Viciosa formerly spoken in Abra Province.

Additions

There were three additions.

Itneg, Banao
Itneg, Moyadan
Filipino

Filipino?! I was surprised to see Filipino. If you've been reading my posts for a while, you know that I consider Filipino a dialect of Tagalog. But upon further investigation of the language tree, Filipino has been grouped as a dialect of Tagalog along with the current Tagalog dialects. I don't think that's an accurate way of putting it. Neither do I think Filipino merits its own entry.

On related news, I've ordered some books from SIL-Philippines. One of them is a Masbatenyo dictionary. But it's taking so long for them to arrive. SIL told me they sent it via airmail on March 7th, but it's already May. I hope they didn't get lost or anything. I had to pay extra for airmail shipping so they'd get here quickly instead of 2-6 months.

Until next time...

Tuesday, January 25, 2005

The Filipino vs. Tagalog debate: Bisalog

First I made some slight changes to my Obligatory Introductory Post.

I apologize for not having written in a while. I returned to school (taking three classes; history, math, & physics) and am still working, so I haven't had the right mood for writing any meaningful entries for this blog. I am at home, sick today. So I think I can muster up some strength to write an entry. ;-)

My blog has been mentioned in two other blogs recently; Languagehat & Sauvage Noble. I'm a regular reader of LanguageHat - the information about various languages in there simply fascinates me. I'll start reading Sauvage Noble, too, which is incidentally run by a Filipino named Angelo Mercado who's a doctoral student. I've read his blog on a couple of occasions, particularly when Language Log was having those "guess the language" quizzes. In any case, I'm grateful that they've mentioned my blog. :-) Welcome!

Anyway, I've been involved (again) recently in a bitter debate about the Philippine National Language, Filipino.

In a nutshell, Tagalog was chosen as the national language in 1937. In 1959, it was renamed to Pilipino (note the P). This was reaffirmed in the 1973 constitution (but set the spark to develop a language called Filipino). The 1987 made Filipino the national language, which "shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages."

From my understanding, this was supposed to be some sort of Philippine Esperanto but instead Tagalog was used the base while vocabulary from other Philippine languages was to be imported. And in a sense, it kind of has. There has been a Filipino dictionary (which I've not yet seen) published by the University of the Philippines that has imported these words. But judging from the examples that I have seen, they're not in common use.

Previously I said I debate with people about this. My view is that Filipino is a dialect of Manila Tagalog - it's virtually the Manila dialect. On the other hand, they believe that Filipino and Tagalog are two separate entities and they claim to be able to judge whether or not a sentence is in Tagalog or not. They have given me examples that they say is exclusively Filipino. But the examples are equally valid in Tagalog! I am guessing that while they see that Filipino is to be Tagalog with foreign borrowings, they see Tagalog as a language without any borrowings - even Spanish ones - and they point to the supposedly "pure" Tagalog of Batangas, Bulacan, or some rurale locale on the outer fringes of the Tagalog dialect continuum (standard Manila Tagalog & Filipino are somewhere in the middle.

If you've studied Philippine languages in depth, both you and I know that a pure Tagalog simply doesn't exist. Even before the arrival of the Spaniards, Tagalog absorbed many words from languages spoken in Luzon like Kapampangan, Ilokano, and Pangasinan. Even the Tagalog spoken in Batangas & Bulacan have their fair share of borrowings. Are these "Filipino," too?

So that is the gist of the debate. There's too much confusion and too much wishful thinking.

To further add to the confusion, someone sent this article about the Filipino dialect of Davao (down in Mindanao, far from Tagalog's homeland in Luzon) is being pushed as the Philippines' national language by outgoing University of the Philippines president Francisco Nemenzo.

Davao is home to many languages, the major ones are Davawenyo (a Central-Philippine language related to Mansakan), Davao Chabacano (a Spanish creole closely related to the Chabacano of Zamboanga), and Davao Visayan (essentially a Cebuano dialect).

This isn't the first time I've heard of Davao. It has come up in debates and I've been told that it's a whole different language. I've been under the impression that it's simply Tagalog with Visayan words thrown in. Someone has been able to locate a recent article written in Davao Tagalog. The article, written by Rene Lizada, is located here.

Here are some excerpts.

The second sentence of the first paragraph says:

Pumunta ako sa kalapit na park para mag dagan dagan
I went to a neighboring park to go running around.

Dagan (dalagan) is the Cebuano word. In Tagalog, it's takbo. And in the next sentences, takbo-takbo is used.

And the rest I'll put in a list. The Tagalog equivalent and an English translation is in parenthesis.

  • hoy bumaba ka na pare dahil kanina pa kaming naghulat (naghintay; wait) dito

  • tinali ang aso at nilipat yung iring (pusa; cat)

  • Wag kang bastos iba ang ibig kong sabihon (sabihin; say. In this case it was a different suffix)

  • Dahil malakas ang ulan ay inisip naming na mas mabut[i] kung muhawa na lang mi kay jusog[?] lagi ang ulan (umalis na lang kami kasi malakas[?]; ... for us to just leave because it's raining hard)!
And so on. If this is story is really representative of the Tagalog spoken in Davao, then to me it's nothing more than Tagalog as spoken by a Bisaya-speaking Davaoeño who codeswitches by putting Cebuano words into his Tagalog. In other words he's speaking what I affectionately call Bisalog (Bisaya & Tagalog). The randomness and word choice remind me of Taglish (Tagalog & English).

Furthermore this phenomenom is hardly exclusive to Davao. It exists everywhere in the Philippines where Tagalog is spoken as a second language. It is hardly new, either; this has been going on long before the existence of Filipino and Pilipino.

Maybe if people really want a national language for the Philippines that's really inclusive of other languages, they should just start from scratch.

A Philippine auxlang, anyone?

Thursday, August 12, 2004

Bill 1563: Filipino as medium of instruction

Consider yourselves lucky - two blog entries in one day.

I heard from fellow linguaphile Viktoro about a proposed bill in the Philippine House of Representatives which seeks to make Tagalog as the medium of instruction in schools.

The full article is here. And below is an excerpt.

The bill's authors said use of the national language in the country's schools would better promote love of Filipino. They said the national language is much easier for students to understand.

The bill cited that there are more subjects being taught in English than Filipino including Science, Mathematics and the Makabayan subjects that covers music, values, practical arts and physical education. It noted that only Pilipino, Araling Panlipunan and Kasaysayan are taught using the national language.
Acquaintances of mine who are against Tagalog being the medium of instruction in non-Tagalog schools will probably disagree with me when I say that this is a step in the right direction. And I sincerely believe it is.

Ideally, I want Cebuano, Bikol, Ilokano, etc. used as mediums of instruction in their respective regions. But when that isn't possible, the next logical step would be to choose a language that's even remotely related to those languages. And that language is Tagalog. I do understand that many non-Tagalogs are not too fond of this idea, but I think the most important thing is to set aside all differences so that the children understand the subjects that they are learning. They cannot do that effectively in English or Spanish or what not. The languages will not disappear as long as it is spoken at home, on the streets, or anywhere in the child's life.

As I said, this is a first step. Hopefully the next will be Cebuano. Good luck to Bill 1563.

Wednesday, July 21, 2004

English as the Medium of Instruction

I am a member of a mailing list called Defenders of the Indigenous Languages of the Archipelago or for short, DILA. The group was founded by Oregon-based Ernesto "Ernie" Turla, a native speaker of Kapampangan. I respect Ernie highly and am grateful for his work and help on the Kapampangan language.

On Monday, Ernie forwarded to the group an article titled [Department of Education] promoting English as medium of instruction.

Ernie prefaced his e-mail with "this is good news." For the life of me, I am having trouble seeing this.

I find this well-intentioned idea detrimental.

As it stands, English is reserved for certain subjects such as math and science and Tagalog for social studies. The DepEd wants to increase the use of English.

I would like to make clear beforehand that I am not anti-English, which would be a silly concept since this is the primary language of my blog and the primary language of my everyday life.

English is not the first language of the vast majority of Filipinos. Hence, it is a foreign language. And as such, it should be treated as a foreign language. There is a world of difference between treating something as a foreign language and having a language used as a medium of instruction in schools.

Here's an example. Whenever I set out to learn something new, I want to make sure the subject at hand has my full comprehension. If not, then why bother? I speak Spanish and French with a decent amount of fluency. Given the option of learning a new concept in English, Spanish, or French, I'd overwhelmingly choose to learn it in English. Why? English is by far my strongest language, thus ensuring that I'll understand the subject thoroughly.

Similarly, if I were teaching a class of Tagalog-speaking children math - a subject some find difficult - I'd do it in Tagalog rather than in English. Why? My answer is very simple. I want them to learn without unnecessary obstacles such as the language barrier. I want them to understand. I want them to succeed.

Unfortunately, my opinion is not very popular.

I've debated this issue at length with people who disagree with me. They point out that it's neither Tagalog nor Cebuano that puts food on the table, but English. They point out that it's English that has benefited millions of Filipino families overseas such as mine.

This gives me the impression that these people care only about fluency in English but very little about other academic subjects. I hope this isn't true.

Now, I said above that I am not anti-English. But where do I feel is English's place in the Philippine education system? As I said, it's a foreign language. So, treat it as a subject that one learns about and not a vehicle for learning new things.

The Japanese learn in their language. So do the Finns, French, Spaniards, Catalans, Indonesians, Chinese, Turks, and even the Icelanders! So why not Filipinos?

I support the use of English as a subject as early as possible. In kindergarten, perhaps. I teach Spanish to children. I have also taught them math and handwriting. I dare not use Spanish to teach those subjects or else they won't fully understand. And that is the point.

Yes, providing the path to fluency in English at a young age is a step in the right direction. But doing it correctly is an important step.

Using English as the medium of instruction, however, is not. Using Tagalog, Cebuano, Ilokano, Maranao, et. al. is.

Thursday, July 15, 2004

Eight Major Languages No More

One of the most frequently-repeated facts about the languages of the Philippines is that there are eight major languages (or if they must, dialects.); Tagalog, Cebuano, Ilokano, Hiligaynon, Bikol, Waray-Waray, and Pangasinan. The reason for this, from my understanding, is that each of these languages have at least one million native speakers.

With the release of the mother tongue statistics of the Philippine Census of 2000, four more languages have become members of the "million club." This brings the number up to 12 major Philippine languages.

The twelve major languages of the Philippines are:
  1. Tagalog (21,485,927) - central & south Luzon.

  2. Cebuano (est. 18,000,000) - central Visayas & northern Mindanao.

  3. Ilokano (6,920,760) - northern Luzon

  4. Hiligaynon (est. 7,000,000) - western Visayas

  5. Bikol (4,583,034) - southeastern Luzon

  6. Waray-Waray (est. 3,000,000) - eastern Visayas

  7. Kapampangan (2,312,870) - central Luzon

  8. Pangasinan (1,362,142) - Pangasinan province

  9. Kinaray-a (est. 1,051,968) - western Visayas

  10. Maranao (1,035,966) - Mindanao

  11. Maguindanao (1,008,424)- Mindanao

  12. Tausug (918,069) - Sulu archipelago
If my math is right, the grand total is 68,679,160 who speak one of the twelve major languages out of 76,332,470 Filipinos. That's almost 90% of Filipinos! All the languages above are a much more inclusive representation of the languages of the Philippines, with the addition of three languages spoken either in or near Mindanao.

The census results are not perfect, however. Three of the languages whose numbers I estimated are spoken in the Visayas; Cebuano, Hiligaynon, and Waray-Waray. Kinaray-a may as well be in this group. The reason I estimated is that because in the Census, their numbers have decreased. For example, the census in 1995 said that where 14,486,196 Cebuanos (Boholanos included) but in 2000 there were 11,868,028.

This has also happened to Hiligaynon & Waray-Waray which, according to the 2000 census, have suffered losses of 464,339 and 42,443 speakers respectively.

Uh, so just where did these 3,124,950 Visayans go? Short of being abducted by aliens or mass genocide, the answer is in the census. As I've said, the census isn't perfect. Or more accurately, the methods used to calculate the mother tongue statistics aren't perfect.

Filipinos have a tendancy to give different names for their languages. If you have two different people that speak the same language, they might give you different names. The folks at the Philippine Census recognize this and consolidated the numbers where they could. But they didn't catch all of them. For example Kinaray-a was listed as three: Hamtikanon, Karay-a, and Kiniray-a.

In the Visayas, this happens frequently. There is the generic name Bisaya or Binisaya and the local name (and there can be a handful of local names). According to linguist R. David Zorc, there are about three dozen Visayan languages. So it is no surprise that in the census that there are about 5,778,435 "Bisaya/Binisaya" speakers.

I've double checked the percentages with the Philippine yearbook. Cebuano speakers have numbered at about 24% of the population since 1960. Hiligaynon at around 9-10%. And Waray-Waray at about 4-5%. So, my estimations are not too farfetched.

Furthermore, Tagalog is at about 32% according to the census of 2000 but 29.3% in 1995. Quite a leap if you ask me. Perhaps there were those who considered Tagalog their native tongue, even if it isn't.

Also, I have chosen to place Tausug on the list even if it's at 918,069. There are Tausugs in Sabah as well which bring the number over 1 million. It's an important language that's used as a lingua franca in the region.

What are the least-spoken languages? The five least-spoken languages are:

  1. Pinangal - spoken by 68. I don't know where this language is spoken. It's not listed on Ethnologue.

  2. Karolano - spoken in Negros Island (Visayas) by 71 people. Info here.

  3. Malbog - spoken by 197. Again, I don't know where.

  4. Tabangnon - spoken by 264 in Quezon Province to Paracale in Camarines Norte. Info about them here.

  5. Kabihug - 300 in Camarines Norte. Article here.
Now it's time to wait for the 2005 census....